Laila Mickelwait, Founder of the Global #TraffickingHub Movement, on the Fight to Shut Down PornHub and End Porn Exploitation

A Voice to the Voiceless

You probably today logged onto a website and you probably have logged on to one of the top 10 websites in the world. You’ve gone on Google today or YouTube or maybe Twitter, but did you know that two of the top 10 websites are based in pornography? And though some people call it a victimless crime. It exploits abuses and objectifies women. Just imagine if it was your daughter, your granddaughter that was tricked seduced, abused, and placed in this harmful lifestyle, you’d feel the injustice of it. Well today we’re talking to an expert who helps as a voice to the voiceless, Laila Mickelwait.

She is the founder, the CEO of the Justice Defense Fund, and also the founder of #TraffickingHub, which is a movement of millions of people around the world who stand against the injustice of sex trafficking. She’s been an advocate for over a decade. She’s a leading expert in the field. She leads this nonreligious, nonpartisan, decentralized, global effort to hold one of the websites, PornHub, accountable for an enabling and profiting from the sex trafficking and criminal exploitation of countless victims. Her work has been featured on hundreds of news outlets, magazines, and global outlets around the world. Laila, we are very, very happy to welcome you to The Influencers Podcast. And we want to thank you for being a voice to the voiceless.

Sounding the Alarm on PornHub

Well, thank you so much for having me, it’s just been an honor to be part of this movement to hold PornHub accountable. And really, I would say one of the things that I feel most proud about is helping to empower victims and survivors to actually use their voice and to share their stories the way that they’re comfortable and to hold these abusers accountable as well. And some of their voices have been the most powerful throughout this whole process. So I just want to give them honor as well for the role that they’ve played, but thank you so much.

Thank you. And for those that just are new and may know nothing about #TraffickingHub and the movement that you represent, how did you get involved and what is your real role in this?

Like you mentioned earlier, I’ve been combating the injustice and sex trafficking for a pretty long time. I mean, it’s been around 15 years that I’ve been focused on this issue. And for the last nine years I’ve been investigating and researching the intersection between the big porn industry, and because there is a big porn industry, just like we have big tech, we have big tobacco, big pharma, we have big porn and I’ve been looking at the ways in which victims of real sexual criminal abuse are being exploited for profit on these sites. And anyone who’s looking into this issue will end up on PornHub because as of December of 2020, PornHub was the largest and the most popular porn site in the world. They had 47 billion visits to the site in 2020, that’s 130 million visits per day. The amount of videos that were uploaded in one year in 2019 was 6.8 million videos. That would take you 169 years to watch if you watched them back to back.

So this is a massive site. Researchers said that PornHub was the third, most influential tech company on society in 2020. So this is a really massive website. And what I discovered earlier last year was that all it took to upload hardcore pornographic and often criminal sex acts to this site was an email address. And so in under 10 minutes, anyone that had an iPhone from anywhere in the world, anyone who had a camera in the back of a car, in a hotel room, or in a bedroom or outside in a park, could film an actual sex crime and upload it to the world’s most popular mainstream porn site, where it’s monetized and then to globally distributed to hundreds of millions of viewers per day. And so when I made that discovery, it was something that many people, probably millions of people already knew, but nobody had really sounded the alarm on before. And so that’s exactly what I did.

I wrote an article that got viral traction and started a petition that now has 2.2 million signatures to shut down PornHub and to hold its executives accountable for complicity in mass sex trafficking, rape, child abuse, and all forms of image based sexual abuse. And so that’s the origin of what is now become #TraffickingHub, because we started using the #TraffickingHub hashtag as a play on PornHub and millions and millions of people around the world have used that. And we’ve seen some amazing traction over the last year and a half.

Holding PornHub Accountable

What are some of the positive things that have happened as a result of your advocacy?
I would just want to say, it’s not only a result of my advocacy, but really a joint effort, hundreds of organizations, hundreds of survivors, millions of advocates, members of parliament journalists from around the world. But, I would love to share what’s happened since the last year and a half when things have really taken off. So, like I mentioned, we had 2.2 million signatures on our petition. We actually saw hundreds of media articles, if not thousands, actually. So the New York times did an investigation and they released a piece called “The Children of PornHub,” which was just a horrific harrowing account of so many child survivors who’d been exploited on the site for profit and it sent shockwaves around the world and 4,000 follow up articles as a result of the New York Times piece.

And within days, Visa, MasterCard, and Discover actually cut ties with PornHub and its parent company Mind Geek. And I just want to as an aside mention that Mind Geek is the parent company of PornHub, but Mind Geek has a monopoly on the global porn industry. They own 80% of it and is reported that they own 80% of all mainstream pornography brands and sites and their flagship is PornHub. And so they cut ties with Mind Geek and PornHub. And then within 24 hours, PornHub actually deleted 80% of its site. So imagine the 10th largest site website in the world deleted 80% of its content, totaling 10 million videos in 24 hours. The site now only is able to take cryptocurrency. So they’ve been severely crippled financially. They’ve upended their business model. The prime minister of Canada responded within a day of the New York Times piece.

A parliamentary investigation was launched in Canada, which forced the CEO and the COO of PornHub out of the shadows for the first time where they actually had to confront the public because they had been hiding their identities for so many years using fake names and things like that. And we’ve seen after the parliamentary investigation launched, bills introduced in multiple countries to try and stop the abuse. Corporate policies have changed. And seven civil lawsuits have been launched and filed against Mind Geek on behalf of 98 victims in the last 12 months. Many of those are class actions. So we’re seeing a massive amount of accountability for PornHub and Mind Geek.

The work in Canada with the prime minister and the parliamentary system is that because PornHub is based in a Canadian business model, or is that where they work?

Their main headquarters is in Montreal where they employ 1200 employees at their flagship office there. They’re technically registered in Luxembourg for tax purposes and they have offices around the world. So, you know, one thing that’s been really encouraging to see is grassroots protests being organized in front of Mind Geek offices around the world. There have been weekly protests in front of the Mind Geek LA office and the Mind Geek Montreal office. And there’ve been protests in the London office as well. So it’s exciting to see people taking a stand like that.

Uploading Sexual Exploitation for Pleasure and Profit

The passion that you have and that you bring to your role, your voice, your advocacy, where does that come from? How did that start in your life and has brought you to literally what you’re spending so much of your time investing in now?

I feel like so much of the energy and the passion I have is based on communication with those who have been victimized by the site and realizing the trauma, the lifelong trauma that it causes, and the fact that this could be anyone’s son or daughter that experiences this kind of abuse that often leads to suicide for these victims or thoughts or suicidal tendencies, because they feel so much shame. They tell me that it’s one thing to be raped or trafficked or abused. But it’s another thing when that abuse is filmed and it’s distributed globally to millions of people and used for pleasure and also for profit. And the fact that they know once it’s out of their hands, once it’s been distributed on a site like PornHub, it gets downloaded and then it gets re-uploaded again and again and again, forever. So they know even when they’re gone, people will be getting pleasure and gaining profit from the worst moments of their life. And the fact is that’s a form of torture and it has to stop. And there has to be awareness brought to the issue because most people think that this kind of thing only happens in the dark corners of the deep web when nothing could be further from the truth that this kind of sex trafficking and exploitation and torture is happening on the world’s most popular mainstream pornography sites and has to stop.

And just listening to you talk about it, it’s just a sense of evil and darkness that you are surrounded by in this work. How do you keep a healthy mindset in the midst of all of this darkness?

It is very, very dark. And I think about the fact that over the last year and a half, I’ve been been sort of a lighthouse, not only for victims to come forward and to tell their stories to, but also for whistleblowers from within the company who are revealing the way that this company operates. Just like a criminal enterprise of an organized crime network. And not only that, but advocates and people who were scouring PornHub from around the world would send me the worst videos that they would come across. If they’ve come across a rape video of an unconscious woman, they would send it to me or a child being exploited or all forms of image-based sexual abuse, even, you know, secret recordings where people would put spy cams in toilets of teen prom bathrooms and changing rooms and things like that, and globally distribute this content.

So there’s nothing that could be more dark. I think it’s truly the darkest that one could experience. I think being a victim of this, but also having to witness this is difficult, but I think the thing that keeps me from getting jaded or cynical, or kind of darkened by this myself, is to see the way that there is accountability, that there is hope that I hear from victims. When PornHub deleted 10 million videos in December, I’m getting contacted by victims who say for the first time in so many years, finally, their rape is off of the site and how life-changing it is for them to experience something like that. So that’s what keeps me going. It’s very exciting to see the way that there’s been a lot of progress in a relatively short amount of time. And I want to see justice fully served. So that definitely keeps me motivated.

Justice Fully Served

So for justice to be fully served, what would be the big end game and what would be the little steps that are helping you to get there?

The big end game is I want to see PornHub shut down. I want you to type pornhub.com into your computer and it says seized by the Department of Justice. And I think that’s totally doable. And I think that will happen in short order. That’s what I believe based on everything I know about the traction that’s happened so far. That’s what I want. I also want to see the executives who are responsible for this put in prison and actually held criminally responsible for what they’ve done to countless victims over the last decade for profit. And then I want them to serve as an example, to all the other sites that might be operating in the same way that we will not let the largest, and most popular, and most powerful, with the most money get away with this. And we won’t let anyone get away with this.

And the fact that this would cause a domino effect to transform an entire industry, to implement policies that would prevent this from happening. And that means age and consent verification for every single person and every video that’s ever uploaded to one of these sites. And so that’s the big win when that happens, but on a smaller scale, we’re seeing so many smaller wins, when Xfinity and Comcast dropped PornHub and Mind Geek and MasterCard changed their global policy recently to not allow their card to be used on any pornography site that doesn’t follow the strict regulations. We’re seeing victims filing lawsuits. We’re seeing awareness being raised about this and journalists covering this all over the world. So all of those things are exciting steps in the right direction and small victories along the way.

Awareness: The Doorway to Action

And we would just say good for you and everyone that is working so hard to push against the darkness and the lives that have been so devastated. What would you say to someone that sees injustice in the world in this area, or another area, you have been very effective, and you’ve worked with people that are very effective. How can we help our listeners who would like to stand against this injustice or another injustice they see, what are the things they could do to make a tangible difference in their world?

Well, I would say don’t discount yourself. Don’t minimize the impact that you can have. And in doing so kind of cripple yourself from taking action, for example, with your politicians. Don’t think that it’s beyond your reach to have influence and policy change and things like that because your politicians work for you and you can go and use your voice, and you can ask for things to be changed to prevent this from happening in the future and whatever injustice you’re focused on. And also just don’t minimize the importance of raising awareness within your community about whatever it is that you’ve become aware of, that you feel that other people need to be aware of, because it happens one by one by one then you have massive awareness happen.

And truly, I always say awareness is the doorway to action. People can’t take action against an injustice they know nothing about. And so just realize that it’s so important that you just share your own knowledge within your own community, in your own sphere of influence, and that can grow, or it can stay at that level. But, you know, don’t compare your your success to having to get 2 million people to sign a petition. Success happens in much smaller degrees and it’s not less important. So I would just say, feel empowered and encouraged to just share within the sphere of influence that you can.

The Real Story of the Porn Industry

And someone that’s listening now that has visited this site. What do you say to someone that is helping the industry stay where it’s at? How do we help those people see that it’s not a victimless crime when they click on that site? How do we help them?

Well, first I would say, it’s not just PornHub, it’s the entire porn tube industry. So the entire industry has shifted in recent years to be a distribution model. That’s a user-generated model where they have sites that are like the YouTube’s of porn, where people upload user-generated content, it’s all free, but they make money from advertising premium memberships and user data collection. So every single person that goes to that site is producing traffic for that site is producing profit for that site. And these companies care. What I’ve seen in my experience is that they care first and foremost about profit. They care about their bank account above anything else. And so we need to hold them accountable financially and a big part of that is the demand of the consumers who are on these sites who are driving traffic or driving profits. And so you need to speak with your pocketbook, with your clicks, and don’t go to these sites. It’s well documented that PornHub and the other Mind Geek porn tube sites and its largest competitors like XVideos, for example, thrives and profits from real sexual crime, including rape and child abuse. And you should have no part in that whatsoever.

How to Get Involved in the Movement

Well, thank you so much for all you’re doing. And just those great words of advice. If someone wanted to be involved, connect with you, learn a little bit more about the #TraffickingHub movement that you represent and others that are helping you, how can they connect with you and how can they be a part of what’s going on?

Well, first of all, if you’re on Twitter, I share many updates and that’s kind of my place where I am constantly updating people on what’s happening in the fight against Mind Geek and the other porn tube sites. And so you can follow me at my handle is @LailaMickelwait, and you can follow me on Instagram as well. And also the organization that I founded called the Justice Defense Fund, you can go to www.justicedefensefund.org, and you can learn more about the organization and contribute there to the work and stay in touch. So you can sign up for our regular newsletter on the site as well. So yeah, those are some ways that you can be part of this. You can also sign the petition. If you haven’t joined the other 2.2 million people from 192 countries, who’ve put their names down and said, enough is enough. And you can do that at www.traffickinghubpetition.com.

Let me encourage all of our listeners, all of our friends, we’re talking about being an influence on this podcast, and you could be an influence by simply going and letting your voice be heard on this very needy issue. Laila, thank you very much for joining us. Thank you for what you’re doing, our thoughts, our prayers, our blessings are with you. Keep up the good work. My friend, Thank you so much for having me. It was a pleasure to speak with you.